WEBVTT

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Nic: Hi, I'm Nic Steenhout, and this is
The Work Between. In

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case you didn't know, I provide
transcripts reviewed for accuracy

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by a human for every episode at the time
of publishing. There's

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a text-only transcript that you could read
if audio isn't the

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best media for you. There's also a timed
transcript you can follow

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along while listening if that works better
for you. You can

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access those directly on the podcast's
website if they aren't

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displayed by your podcast aggregator.
That's theworkbetween

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show. Before I get into what the show is,
I want to

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say whose land it's made on. This podcast
is recorded on the

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traditional, ancestral, and unceded
territory of the Stó:lō

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Coast Salish people. The people of the
river, whose presence in

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the Fraser Valley stretches back thousands
of years. I name this

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territory because it belongs with what
this show is about

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The ways we decide whose lives are valued,
whose work is taken

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seriously, and whose experiences are
treated as problems to be

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managed. Those decisions shape everything.
This show sits

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inside that. This is, was, and always will
be First Nations

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land. That's not a formality. It's
consistent with everything

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I, and this show, stand for. Róisín Curé
is an urban sketcher

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author, and teacher based in Galway, on
the west coast of

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Ireland. She came to urban sketching in
2012 and built a

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practice around capturing everyday and
natural scences in

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ink and watercolor. She teaches sketching
worldwide through

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online classes, a sketch club, and
in-person workshops across

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Europe. She has published

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illustrated books including An Urban
Sketcher's Galway. She has

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recently launched Wild Atlantic Ink, a
monthly hand-drawn comic

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rooted in the wildlife landscape and
stories of her corner of

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Ireland. We spoke about identity and how
she identifies as a

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comic artist, about the relationship
between sketching

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and mental health, about the pros and cons
of sketching from

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life rather than from photos, and we even
spoke briefly about

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foraging and cooking. Hello, Róisín. Thank
you for joining me

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on my show. I was really excited that you
accepted the

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invitation because I'm a little bit
starstruck, I have to

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say. So thank you for joining

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Róisín: Delighted. Delighted to be here,
Nic. Thanks for

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inviting me

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Nic: For those of us who don't know you,
can you tell me in a

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few words, what is it you do? What's your
creative practice

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Róisín: My creative practice has suddenly
taken a new turn, and I

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am now officially identifying as a comics
creator. So

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I've struggled. You mentioned earlier that
the podcast will

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discuss themes of identity as an artist
and creative identity

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and it's always been baffling to me how I
couldn't identify, I

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couldn't put a label on what I do. And I
would try out lots of

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labels in my head and none of them seem to
fit. But I'm a

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comic, I'm a comics creator, and that fits
just fine

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Nic: Comics creator

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Róisín: I'm a comics creator

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Nic: What kind of comics? I grew up with
Tintin and Spirou and

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all the classic Franco-Belgian ones

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Róisín: My comics are like, I've only done
one episode, and I'm

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just getting issue two to print. And it is
like as if Hergé met

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David Attenborough, and we're driving in a
clown car together

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That's a good description. Nic: Okay.
Róisín: I've got the Ligne Claire of

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Hergé, and I have the Passion for Nature
of David

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Attenborough, and the clown car is because
I cannot be serious

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Nic: I want to read that

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Róisín: You're going to love it

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Nic: Yeah, I'm sure I will. I have a bit
of a passion for

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nature. I have several creative practices.
I sketch, I

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quilt, and I do bird photography

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Róisín: Oh, wow. Nic: And

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I'm privileged enough to live five minutes
from where the

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bald eagle migration comes through every
year. So between

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November and early January, I drive five
minutes, and I can see

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hundreds of bald eagles in one spot.
Róisín: Amazing. Nic: So this is just like

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yeah, it is amazing. It's like
mind-blowing. You know, how are

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we so lucky to have this? And at the same
time

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Róisín: I live on an estuary, and my land
backs onto an

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estuary. I am also privileged to have just

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discovered the Merlin app, and I'm
extremely privileged to have

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a lovely son who likes to walk with me
early in the morning. He

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does not like me listening to the birds
all the time, but I am

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just enchanted by the combination of
Merlin app and the

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bird life. I was just saying to my husband
earlier today, this

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summer I am enjoying the birds more than I
ever have in all my

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years, because I'm suddenly very, very
conscious of them due

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to just listening out for them, really.
And on our estuary, we

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just have everything. They all love our
estuary, and

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it's a very out-of-the-way, undisturbed,
unspoiled natural

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paradise. So it's just perfect

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Nic: That's wonderful. I assume you sketch
those birds once in a

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while

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Róisín: Well, this will make you laugh,
Nic. First of all, I've

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only just discovered the Merlin app, so I
haven't really been

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conscious of birds. We've been walking
parallel to each other

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without being aware of each other's
presence for, you know

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50 something years, I suppose. But I was
putting them into my

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first issue of my comic. So I used the
Merlin app to draw

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them. There's photographs of the birds and
I copied them. I

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mean, how how bad is that? I did not sit
there with my

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binoculars and my sketchbook. I looked at
my phone

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screenshotted the ones I'd heard. I drew
them from the

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photos that the app supplied. Nic: Right.
Róisín: But I'm hoping that I used to be

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very much a purist. If it if it wasn't in
front of me, it didn't

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get drawn. But I've changed. Now I feel I
don't care what

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source it is, if it's my mind, if it's a
photo. Obviously, I

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work from life all the time as well. But
now it's about the art

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for the first time, not about the source

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Nic: This this is fascinating because I am
not directly

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involved with the urban sketching
movement. But I have

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attended a few events and obviously I've
read the books

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and all that. And of course, it's it's
always we draw on location. Yeah. And

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for me, who's come to art later, I've only
been drawing for about

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five years. Doing it on location is
extremely difficult because I

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don't have muscle memory on how do I draw
a face? How do I get

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the perspective right? And... I've tried
and tried and tried, and I

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beat myself up because I hate the results.
I feel I'm not

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progressing. I'm feeling like backwards.
So I've I've done a

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lot of thinking around, well, maybe using
photos isn't so bad

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because. Róisín: No

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it's it's it's I'm sorry to interrupt you,
Nic. No

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it's not. I know it seems challenging to
draw on location

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but actually you've got much more
information on location

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than you do from photo. You can see more
clearly what's

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challenging is the fact that they move,
the fact that they

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leave, the fact that the light changes.
But those things

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counterintuitively actually become
benefits because they

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force you to just draw whatever you can.
And you're no longer

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obsessed about getting it right or wrong
because there is no time

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to obsess about getting it right or wrong.
And like that, there's

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no such thing as drawing a face, drawing a
tree. There's

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only seing there's only seing and drawing
what you see. And

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when I when I teach people to draw, I say.
It makes no

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difference whether you're drawing a heap
of rocks or a

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human face in terms of the actual
technique you use

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Drawing is drawing, looking is looking. It
really does not

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matter what the subject matter is, except
that some don't move

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and some do. And other than that, it's all
the same thing

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Nic: So you giving yourself permission to
draw from photos

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how does that tie in then? Because you've
done all the hard

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work

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Róisín: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could say
that you could say

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that I've done all the work I've been
outside and, you know

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inside. But drawing, drawing what I see in
front of me, I'm not

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going to say daily, but not that far off
daily for the last 12

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or 14 years. And before that, I wasn't an
urban

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sketcher, but I've been drawing regularly
since I was about, I

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don't know, four or five, the usual young
kid age. And I

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didn't stop. I drew all the way through my
always. So I'm not

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I'm not going to go to the urban
sketching, you know, I'm not

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going to go to an urban sketching meet up
and start

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drawing from my head or from photos. But

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yeah, I've I've put in the groundwork and
my comic is, for example

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it's got a story about a seal who lives on
the coast. And

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every time I draw his little rock pool
that he lives in, I'm

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remembering the way the reflections go
when I draw the

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sky darkening at night and the sunset. I'm
remembering how I've

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drawn that. So many, many times I've drawn
wet sand when he

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meets, he meets another seal on the wet
sand at dawn. Well, I

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know how that looks because I've drawn it
so many times, not

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a seal on the wet sand, you know, so my
drawings are very

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much informed. And you say muscle memory,
I've got bags of

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muscle memory now and I'm so glad. It's
like it's like you've

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been driving all your life and somebody
asks you to go and

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drive in a racetrack. And it's a really
tricky racetrack. But

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you're like, yeah, I can do that. I've
done it a million

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times. I'm comfortable with my car. I'm
comfortable with the

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way the road bends, comfortable with any
surprises that might

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come up along the way. I'm used to it.
I've done it. So that's

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that's where I'm coming from in that way

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Nic: How did you find the racetrack? How
did you get from what

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you were doing to doing cartoons and
identifying yourself as a

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comic artist

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Róisín: I've been a comic artist since I
was I mean, I was I

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was a Tintin obsessive. So, I mean, I've
read I don't know

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I've read three biographies on Hergé. I
was looking for the

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secret to his beautiful line and his
incredible mastery. And I

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really wanted to find out the secret. Now
we're going back

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We're going back twenty five years plus
now, and eventually I worked out

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by myself what the secret was, which was
that... He wasn't that

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great when he started, but he was always a
great storyteller

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but he wasn't that accomplished as an
artist. He was OK, but

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he wasn't what he became. And then he
worked on Le Petit Vingtième

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every had to had to produce a comic every
single Friday

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without excuse, without fail. And he did
that for ten years

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And I began to and then I also discovered
that he had a team

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and I thought, oh, oh, he had a team. Nic:
Oh, OK. Róisín: So it's not just

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Hergé, it's Hergé and his team. But I
realized that just by sheer

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volume of output, he became a master. And
as I say, he had to

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bring it every single Friday. He had to
produce the goods and he

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had a team. So I was comforted by that.
And I thought, OK, it's

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it's possible through sheer dedication and
practice because

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I was always very technically able, but
nothing like that

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nothing like that. And then. And then. So
I was a comic artist

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all my life. I've always been the one to
to make people around me

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laugh through my drawings. I've always
done that. I've done

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comic strip series of my friends who never
had any boyfriends

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And then it was me who never had any
boyfriends. And then it was

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there was always something for me to draw
a comic strip about

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and on social media. And so when I joined
social media in

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2013, I quickly realized that the public
had no interest

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whatsoever in any of my funny stuff. So I
just didn't bother

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putting it there. And it was something I
just did for my

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family to make to make my family laugh.
And, you know, we

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share a sense of humor. So it was always
great fun. And then

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I've been doing this nonstop ever since.
It was just a little

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private pleasure I had. And then it was
something that was always

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an ambition of mine. But life goes on. The
years go by and

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you think, you know, I'm very happy with
what I'm doing. I'm

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very lucky the way things have worked out.
I've done very well

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I've had lots of these creative platforms
that people could only

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could never even have dreamt of in time
gone by. And

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I've had them all. And I live in the
middle of nowhere.And I'm a

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mom who stayed at home to raise the
children. And yet I got the

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breaks because of social media. So I felt
very grateful. But

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then about three months ago, I came across
a woman who had

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started doing a comic and it's been very
successful for her

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She's had viral success she's bringing in
a very decent wage

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every month because of the success of the
comic and I

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thought oh my god that's what I want to do
that's that's what

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I can do. I can I can do this I can make a
comic because I've been

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making little booklets of all sorts for
years

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self-publishing. I've got some traditional
traditionally

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published books out but didn't really want
to do that anymore

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And then I couldn't remember who she was
you know the way in

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social media if you don't make a record of
it it's gone

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There's no way you're going to find it.
Nic: Yep. Róisín: And then my younger

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daughter introduced me to um you know
Gemini. So I said to

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Gemini so I'm looking for this cartoonist,
this this comics creator and

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I don't know her name but she's bringing
in $14,000 a month

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because I was trying to give facts and
figures she is she

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was interviewed by a newspaper but I don't
know which one and

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little lady. And I

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was able to find her and I thought oh my
goodness I've

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got a medium-sized audience small to
medium-sized audience

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I'm going to give this a try

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And with that I started drawing. I started
planning and

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then it was like the floodgates opened the
idea started coming

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through and at the same time as this
happened this is the

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really strange thing how things come
together. When the time is

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right... um I follow a guru from San
Diego, a fantastic man called

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Pat Flynn really fantastic guy and he
sometime in November

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December he said right on January the 12th
we're all going

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to do one reel and a short a YouTube short
every single day

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one minute long from one month. So I was
like I wouldn't mind

240
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doing that, yeah that's a good idea I
think I can do that and

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it was going to start on January the 12th.
And on January the

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12th in the morning I said to my
husband... I said this is the

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day I'm supposed to start but I don't know
what I'm going to do

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I have no idea. I haven't planned it so I
thought well

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nothing to lose nobody's paying me. Nobody
cares whether I do it

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or not so do whatever you want. Which is
always a great

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way to start any creative endeavor and I
had been drawing

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the little um animals from my area my
beautiful part of Galway

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where I live. And make believe animal well
they're real

250
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animals but they're... They all walk on
two feet and they've

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got like 18th century clothes and you know
they're they it's

252
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centered around the ruins of a manor house
a few years ago. And I thought well I'm

253
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this I'm going to do this I'm going to do
this. And I thought well I'd like to do
that so I

254
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started drawing them and one thing led to
another and I

255
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started being able... I... A story began
to form which had never

256
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happened for me never been able to write
fiction. um And suddenly

257
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here was a world that had just opened up
in front of me. This

258
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this this this personality who began to
take on

259
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a life of his own and I suddenly found I
had plenty in

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the tank

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um Yeah

262
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and that was great and I was like oh my
god I've

263
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discovered my illustration stroke
storytelling mojo. And

264
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then when I saw the comics lady about a
month and a half ago I

265
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was like oh my god I can put them all in a
comic I can put

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them in the comic. I can have a story in
the comic. I can do

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something on the flora and fauna I can do
the birds. I can

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do a recipe I can go and gather wood. I
can do a lot of things. I can do a lot of
things I can do a lot of weeds and make
food out of it

269
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because I've always done that and I was
like oh my god and I

270
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haven't left my studio since. I'm here you
know six in the

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morning so I don't know how long it'll
last before I fall

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00:18:00.569 --> 00:18:02.369
over with exhaustion but so far so good

273
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Nic: And you're about to release the first
one

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Róisín: I've done the first one the first
one I printed 400

275
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copies I have about um let me see I have
about 80%, 70% of

276
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them left but I fully expected that um and
I'm perfectly happy

277
00:18:22.879 --> 00:18:25.849
I'm going to lose so much money on this
venture but I don't

278
00:18:25.909 --> 00:18:29.479
care because this is my artistic
expression. um and you

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00:18:29.539 --> 00:18:33.259
know... You you put you you paint in your
studio and you you you put your

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00:18:33.469 --> 00:18:37.489
work up in a gallery and you don't second
guess the audience

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00:18:37.729 --> 00:18:41.769
If you do well that's a mistake in my
opinion. So this

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is the same thing I'm just making it. I am
certainly not

283
00:18:45.129 --> 00:18:47.709
second guessing the audience but I'm going
to... I'm just pleasing myself and

284
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that's always a good start

285
00:18:52.450 --> 00:18:57.340
Nic: So one of the questions I often ask
is do you do art for

286
00:18:57.370 --> 00:19:01.170
yourself or do you do art for others? And
this sounds like

287
00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:06.540
almost like you're doing it for yourself
without really caring

288
00:19:06.600 --> 00:19:07.110
for the audience

289
00:19:07.949 --> 00:19:12.239
Róisín: I'm not I don't I I tell you what
my father my father

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00:19:12.569 --> 00:19:15.629
he left us in November, and my father and
I were very close

291
00:19:17.009 --> 00:19:20.579
And he used to always say to me he had a
horror of being bored

292
00:19:20.849 --> 00:19:26.869
This was his terrible fear and he,
whenever I said to him dad I'm

293
00:19:26.899 --> 00:19:31.519
working on a new book, he'd say is it
boring? I say well uh I I I

294
00:19:31.699 --> 00:19:34.369
hope not. He said just don't let it be
boring. Don't be

295
00:19:34.489 --> 00:19:40.959
boring okay right I'll do my best. So that
in that sense I try to please

296
00:19:41.019 --> 00:19:43.929
the audience I really don't want the
audience to be bored

297
00:19:44.349 --> 00:19:47.049
They're giving me their time, they're
giving me their money

298
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:52.419
so it's my responsibility to make sure
they're not bored. um So

299
00:19:52.509 --> 00:19:55.419
I want to give them value and also I
canvassed my wonderful

300
00:19:55.479 --> 00:19:58.389
students. And I asked them... I told them
about my comic I was

301
00:19:58.449 --> 00:20:00.899
planning and one of my students is a real
straight

302
00:20:00.989 --> 00:20:05.219
talker. And she said okay Róisín what is
the value for me

303
00:20:05.879 --> 00:20:11.069
when I buy your comic and I was like um...
Oh gosh well so I

304
00:20:11.129 --> 00:20:13.889
said there'll be maps. She's like okay I
like maps. Maps

305
00:20:13.979 --> 00:20:17.399
are good. And I said they're... There'll
be recipes. She said uh-huh

306
00:20:17.729 --> 00:20:22.249
okay that's good. But it she really helped
me to keep that

307
00:20:23.059 --> 00:20:26.749
front and center in my mind. Give them
value and above all

308
00:20:27.469 --> 00:20:32.179
make sure they're not bored. So but within
that you can really

309
00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:35.029
please yourself. You can you can draw the
recipes just how

310
00:20:35.149 --> 00:20:38.809
you want to. You can you can present them
exactly how you

311
00:20:38.869 --> 00:20:42.429
think they should be presented and
every... Every page I approach

312
00:20:43.059 --> 00:20:47.739
is is a playground. It's a 100% playground
how am I going to

313
00:20:47.739 --> 00:20:51.129
present this, what would this creature
say, what would what

314
00:20:51.129 --> 00:20:54.279
would, be how do these colors look
together, do the colors... Do

315
00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:59.049
they harmonize? And I have on occasion
thrown whole pages away

316
00:20:59.229 --> 00:21:04.529
because I didn't I didn't do myself
justice you know. So

317
00:21:04.949 --> 00:21:08.819
I'm I'm trying to really do my best. This
is my this is my

318
00:21:08.939 --> 00:21:11.519
exhibition this is my art gallery because
I don't ever

319
00:21:11.609 --> 00:21:12.629
put any work up on a wall

320
00:21:17.810 --> 00:21:23.690
Nic: Someone asked me recently if I could
do a portrait of

321
00:21:23.690 --> 00:21:28.520
themselves and I said sure I can give it a
go. I don't

322
00:21:28.520 --> 00:21:31.460
promise anything but I can give it a go.
And then they said

323
00:21:31.460 --> 00:21:35.330
well you know if I don't like it you can
always do revisions

324
00:21:35.330 --> 00:21:39.350
And I had to say well you know I am using
actual ink and

325
00:21:39.350 --> 00:21:43.595
actual watercolor on actual paper it's not
like Procreate

326
00:21:40.925 --> 00:22:05.150
I

327
00:21:43.595 --> 00:21:49.535
can't do an undo. And you saying you're
throwing out whole

328
00:21:49.535 --> 00:21:54.005
pages is a little bit like that right? For
those who listen in

329
00:21:54.005 --> 00:21:59.045
that don't understand we're we're talking
about actual physical

330
00:21:59.045 --> 00:22:00.665
art not digital art

331
00:22:05.150 --> 00:22:09.350
draw everything by hand. Every time I draw
a speech bubble, I

332
00:22:09.350 --> 00:22:12.860
draw a speech bubble and I draw little
track lines with a pencil

333
00:22:12.860 --> 00:22:16.580
to make sure that the lines are nice and
neat. And if I change

334
00:22:16.580 --> 00:22:19.490
my mind about what they've what they're
going to say I draw a

335
00:22:19.490 --> 00:22:23.660
new speech bubble with new track lines. If
my hand if I'm too

336
00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.885
eager and my hand smudges the ink before
it's dry, I have to

337
00:22:26.885 --> 00:22:29.885
draw a new speech bubble. Sometimes the
shape isn't quite

338
00:22:29.885 --> 00:22:33.005
right but the writing is perfect and I've
said exactly

339
00:22:33.005 --> 00:22:37.115
what I want to say so I go ahead and scan
it and then I

340
00:22:37.115 --> 00:22:42.125
clean it up and then I remove the
background. I might adjust

341
00:22:42.125 --> 00:22:47.045
the scale. I drop it in. I layer my work.
I use graphics program

342
00:22:47.045 --> 00:22:53.420
to layer to flatten images, to erase
things. But everything

343
00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:57.350
everything is created by hand and then
it's manipulated on the

344
00:22:57.350 --> 00:22:59.630
screen

345
00:22:59.630 --> 00:23:04.490
Nic: That's an interesting process. Tell

346
00:23:04.820 --> 00:23:09.050
more it works. Róisín: It's fantastic I
I'm thinking I'm giving a course

347
00:23:09.050 --> 00:23:15.485
next May in Greece May 27 and it's going
to be um illustrated

348
00:23:15.485 --> 00:23:19.145
vacationing journaling. And I'm going to
teach them how to use

349
00:23:19.145 --> 00:23:22.925
the graphics program because it's free.
It's GIMP, it's open

350
00:23:22.925 --> 00:23:26.345
source. It's GIMP and I did not... For the
first time I did

351
00:23:26.345 --> 00:23:29.465
not ask my son and my husband. Well my
husband would just say

352
00:23:29.465 --> 00:23:33.545
he's busy but my son, I did not ask my son
to install it for me

353
00:23:33.545 --> 00:23:37.790
I did it all on my own, which is amazing
for me. So if I can do

354
00:23:37.790 --> 00:23:41.780
it anyone can do it. And it's very
powerful. I've only used a

355
00:23:41.780 --> 00:23:46.250
hundredth of what's available on it. And
if I can't do something I

356
00:23:46.250 --> 00:23:49.250
google how to do it, and if I still can't
do it I go and ask

357
00:23:49.250 --> 00:23:53.750
my son and he's he's brilliant at it. He
showed me... So um for

358
00:23:53.750 --> 00:24:00.605
example I... In the coming issue I have um
one of my owls is getting

359
00:24:00.605 --> 00:24:05.255
used to his new quarters his new aviary
and I wanted to show

360
00:24:05.255 --> 00:24:10.115
the grill um you know the bars in front of
the aviary because at

361
00:24:10.115 --> 00:24:13.775
one point he, the little owl I mean... It
was so adorable he

362
00:24:13.775 --> 00:24:17.135
flew over to me and he hung on to the the
the wires with his two little

363
00:24:17.135 --> 00:24:20.705
talons and his two... He let his two wings
dangle down like he

364
00:24:20.705 --> 00:24:24.680
looked like a giant white feathery fly. It
was so sweet

365
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:26.960
and he's only a baby. He's only he's only
a couple of months

366
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.320
old and uh he stood there with his two
little feet and his wings

367
00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:32.570
hanging down and I, of course, I had to do
the grill because

368
00:24:32.570 --> 00:24:35.990
otherwise what's he hanging on to. So I
did the grill. I it

369
00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:39.440
worked really well and uh it looked it
looked just right but it was

370
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.650
much too dark. It was black. I used black
ink for it I should

371
00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:46.295
have used gray and uh when I put it in
front of the the drawing of

372
00:24:46.295 --> 00:24:50.585
the owl it just it was really... um It was
really

373
00:24:50.585 --> 00:24:54.155
interfering with the drawings of the owls.
So I was trying to... I

374
00:24:54.155 --> 00:24:57.665
was trying to adjust the opacity of the
grill but I didn't

375
00:24:57.665 --> 00:25:01.355
really know what what what it was called.
I mean that's how bad I am. I

376
00:25:01.355 --> 00:25:04.625
thought is it the gradient? Is the
transparency? What do you

377
00:25:04.625 --> 00:25:08.720
call this? So I tottered over to my son
and he said it's the

378
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.000
opacity and suddenly he showed me how to
adjust the opacity so

379
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.460
I was able to drop the grill on the owls
but this time

380
00:25:16.460 --> 00:25:20.060
they were nice and pale gray. And I could
test different

381
00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:24.110
opacities to see what was a good balance
between you know not

382
00:25:24.110 --> 00:25:28.190
being too dark and being too light. So I
love the fact that I

383
00:25:28.190 --> 00:25:34.835
can manipulate very key elements of design
like that. um Now my

384
00:25:34.835 --> 00:25:38.225
The only problem is my eyes get very
tired. I'm on a MacBook

385
00:25:38.225 --> 00:25:42.515
Air. It's very small screen and I probably
should get a bigger

386
00:25:42.755 --> 00:25:47.225
a bigger a bigger laptop but... um So the
result is my eyes are

387
00:25:47.255 --> 00:25:50.975
extremely tired at night time but that's
okay. I mean you

388
00:25:50.975 --> 00:25:53.765
just have to take lots of breaks you know.
I have a dog

389
00:25:53.765 --> 00:25:55.670
and the dog loves to chase a ball so

390
00:25:57.770 --> 00:26:01.940
Nic: Yes uh my dog is hard to sleep on my
feet right now and

391
00:26:02.060 --> 00:26:02.330
Róisín: Oh lovely

392
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:14.300
Yeah. You mentioned Hergé and uh I'm gonna
share a an anecdote

393
00:26:14.300 --> 00:26:19.850
from my life when I was very young. I
think I was 10, 11

394
00:26:19.850 --> 00:26:25.580
There was in Montreal an exhibit for
Hergé, a retrospective of

395
00:26:25.580 --> 00:26:32.105
his work and um my cousin and I we were
talking and we were

396
00:26:32.105 --> 00:26:35.255
saying oh wouldn't it be great if Tintin
had an adventure in

397
00:26:35.255 --> 00:26:42.185
Quebec. And um there and then we sat down
and we wrote a letter

398
00:26:42.725 --> 00:26:48.425
to Hergé saying "hey why don't you have an
adventure of

399
00:26:48.575 --> 00:26:56.090
Tintin au Québec"? And uh somehow the
people the journalists that

400
00:26:56.090 --> 00:27:02.150
were there um filmed us writing this
letter uh to to Hergé. We were

401
00:27:02.150 --> 00:27:06.920
sitting in a corner of the museum and the
letter made it

402
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:12.785
to him somehow. And we got a response. So
uh somewhere in my

403
00:27:12.785 --> 00:27:18.125
mother's archives there is a letter from
Hergé saying "hey this

404
00:27:18.125 --> 00:27:21.425
is a wonderful idea and maybe Tintin will
come to Quebec right

405
00:27:21.425 --> 00:27:27.965
now but I'm busy working on a new
project", which was his last

406
00:27:27.965 --> 00:27:31.715
one that was never published because he
died. And then you

407
00:27:31.715 --> 00:27:37.850
know I think it's the Alph-Art. So so yeah
that's that's my

408
00:27:37.850 --> 00:27:38.750
connection to

409
00:27:39.530 --> 00:27:39.860
Hergé. That's amazing

410
00:27:40.580 --> 00:27:40.630
yeah

411
00:27:42.010 --> 00:27:44.830
that's amazing. Well I have an anecdote
about Hergé as

412
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:49.900
well. Indirect and this is a very sad
story. I lived in

413
00:27:49.990 --> 00:27:56.170
Paris in the early 1990s and um I was
living a very miserable

414
00:27:56.560 --> 00:28:01.410
lonely life. I had a really bad boyfriend
who I really should

415
00:28:01.470 --> 00:28:04.350
not have been hanging around with at all.
It was a real

416
00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:08.880
problem and I was trying to get away but I
didn't have a job

417
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.630
and I was at the mercy of his largesse. So
it was not a good

418
00:28:12.690 --> 00:28:15.900
situation I was trying to get jobs and I
was being taken care of. And I was turned

419
00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:18.480
down here, there, and everywhere and then
I saw a job

420
00:28:19.080 --> 00:28:25.220
drawing Tintin cartoons with a studio in
Paris. I thought oh

421
00:28:25.280 --> 00:28:30.080
well I can do that and I went for my
little trial and I drew

422
00:28:30.290 --> 00:28:33.650
some Tintin cartoons and I drew better
than I'd ever drawn

423
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.130
before. But in retrospect I don't think
they were that good

424
00:28:37.190 --> 00:28:40.400
to be honest but they were but they were
better than I'd drawn

425
00:28:40.550 --> 00:28:43.780
normally so I really was sure that I had a
chance. Anyway I

426
00:28:43.870 --> 00:28:50.380
didn't get the job and um a very nice
manager told me that... It

427
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.810
wasn't a manager, he was a sub manager or
something... He told me

428
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.440
he'd been trying to get a woman on his
team for 10 years and he

429
00:28:56.770 --> 00:28:59.530
had yet to succeed. He said they just
aren't going to hire women

430
00:29:00.070 --> 00:29:03.330
So that kind of made it better because it
felt like it wasn't

431
00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:06.900
really my fault. I couldn't do anything
about it but... um that's my

432
00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:11.400
sad Hergé story. And I cried and cried and
cried and then I

433
00:29:11.490 --> 00:29:14.790
went to see um Green Card with the Gérard
Depardieu and it was

434
00:29:14.850 --> 00:29:17.550
really funny and it cheered me up so it
wasn't too bad

435
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:26.270
Nic: Yeah. Part of my show is is talking
about disability

436
00:29:26.300 --> 00:29:31.070
and art and before we started recording I
I pointed out I know

437
00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:35.300
you don't identify as disabled. You're not
disabled but in

438
00:29:35.630 --> 00:29:38.870
reading your blogs, listening to some
other interviews you've

439
00:29:39.110 --> 00:29:44.560
done, there's there's been a a running
thread I think where

440
00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:48.730
you speak a lot about melancholy and uh
you've used word

441
00:29:48.820 --> 00:29:53.800
like taming the demons and brain worms and
all that so I

442
00:29:54.160 --> 00:30:02.190
think that those themes fit in within the
context of of disability

443
00:30:03.060 --> 00:30:09.270
in at a stretch. But um one thing that I
was really interesting in

444
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:18.330
hearing is how sketching for you is
letting you quiet your mind

445
00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:21.230
Can you tell me a little bit more about
that

446
00:30:21.739 --> 00:30:26.299
Róisín: Yes I I'd be very happy to um I I
was... I mean that that example

447
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.449
of what I just told you in Paris, that was
just very normal

448
00:30:29.509 --> 00:30:34.039
for me. I mean that was just my my lot in
life. That I would you

449
00:30:34.069 --> 00:30:37.909
know frequently be absolutely miserable,
you know, and it

450
00:30:37.909 --> 00:30:41.049
didn't have to be because I was alone in
another city. It could

451
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:44.379
be anywhere. It could be in company. It
could be alone. I come

452
00:30:44.409 --> 00:30:48.939
from a very big family but it was no
guarantee at all that I

453
00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:53.799
wouldn't be you know in trouble that way.
And it was

454
00:30:54.429 --> 00:30:58.839
just a part of my persona that I was very
disappointed in

455
00:30:59.439 --> 00:31:03.719
because I it's nobody likes to have that
kind of horrible

456
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:07.559
little, you know, creature yapping at your
feet waiting to

457
00:31:07.649 --> 00:31:12.209
pounce at any moment. Because melancholy
is horrible and and

458
00:31:12.449 --> 00:31:14.489
dwelling on the worst that can happen and
being a

459
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.509
catastrophist and, you know... But also
just just general

460
00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:26.479
depression um and in fact um so I'm and
and... I did have um I did I have a... I
was

461
00:31:26.479 --> 00:31:30.529
the subject of a of an attack in Paris and
in fact it was the

462
00:31:30.649 --> 00:31:34.879
same the same man I just referred to. And
unfortunately

463
00:31:35.029 --> 00:31:41.379
that led to... um It it really opened the
door... The things that had been

464
00:31:41.529 --> 00:31:45.489
sort of kept at bay suddenly the gates,
the locks broke, and

465
00:31:45.489 --> 00:31:48.939
the gates were open and I went through. I
went into what what

466
00:31:48.999 --> 00:31:55.029
I came to realize was just PTSD, regular
old PTSD, post-traumatic

467
00:31:55.089 --> 00:31:57.549
stress disorder. Which I didn't know what
it was. I just thought

468
00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:02.699
I was going mad and a few years later um
when I heard a

469
00:32:02.879 --> 00:32:04.859
psychiatrist on the radio, I remember I
was hoovering my

470
00:32:04.919 --> 00:32:08.159
bedroom, and I I heard a psychiatrist on
the radio talk

471
00:32:08.219 --> 00:32:12.089
about this feeling of thinking you're
going mad and thinking

472
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:14.699
that you're jumping off a cliff into an
abyss and there's

473
00:32:14.879 --> 00:32:18.299
nobody can save you. And that is I I just
stopped hoovering. I

474
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:20.749
thought oh my god he's talking about me.
There's I'm going

475
00:32:20.779 --> 00:32:24.589
into madness and there's nobody gonna stop
me and I realized

476
00:32:24.769 --> 00:32:28.429
then that... um That it was it was an
actual thing it was an

477
00:32:28.489 --> 00:32:31.249
actual thing. And then I a little while
later I discovered

478
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:34.129
that people who survive near-death
experiences often

479
00:32:34.219 --> 00:32:38.089
have that when you're faced with your own
mortality. It happens

480
00:32:38.149 --> 00:32:42.849
to people who've survived plane crash, who
have um been you

481
00:32:42.909 --> 00:32:46.809
know had a heart attack, they can get this
PTSD survivor

482
00:32:46.959 --> 00:32:49.449
thing you know. It's just too much for
your brain to handle

483
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.749
that you were this close to being killed
but you're not

484
00:32:53.289 --> 00:32:56.979
you know. And I had tasted death at that
time when I was

485
00:32:57.009 --> 00:33:00.809
attacked and I was very close to being to
being killed but I

486
00:33:00.899 --> 00:33:08.489
wasn't. And um I began to get used to this
creature that was big. It

487
00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:13.919
took it took a permanent residence in my
mind and uh it was

488
00:33:14.249 --> 00:33:18.659
unpleasant but it was something I couldn't
get rid of. It just

489
00:33:18.719 --> 00:33:23.449
lived there and it manifested in a kind
of... um It manifested in a

490
00:33:23.509 --> 00:33:28.519
kind of a knot in my in my chest. Time
went by, went to

491
00:33:28.549 --> 00:33:32.869
university, got married, had kids that was
very again it

492
00:33:32.899 --> 00:33:35.419
kept rearing its head when you're bringing
up children on

493
00:33:35.449 --> 00:33:39.349
your own, it's not a good place for people
who have this this

494
00:33:39.619 --> 00:33:43.899
this this weakness. And then in 2012 I
discovered sketching

495
00:33:45.609 --> 00:33:49.629
and needless to say um it occupied my
brain because when

496
00:33:49.659 --> 00:33:52.629
you're struggling to try and draw
something properly it's

497
00:33:52.959 --> 00:33:56.259
flipping hard. You know it looks wrong all
the time and

498
00:33:56.259 --> 00:33:56.769
it's hard

499
00:33:58.180 --> 00:33:58.840
Nic: That's where I'm at

500
00:34:02.349 --> 00:34:05.729
Róisín: It's very hard. It's very hard and
uh all kinds of things happen but it's

501
00:34:05.789 --> 00:34:11.009
very exciting. And I fell in love with
sketching. So I I and I

502
00:34:11.069 --> 00:34:15.179
got addicted so I started sketching a lot.
And um I came back

503
00:34:15.269 --> 00:34:17.189
to Ireland, that was when I was living in
Mauritius, and I came

504
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:20.299
I came back to Ireland and I kept on
sketching. And

505
00:34:20.509 --> 00:34:25.489
then after about maybe a year or two I
began to notice something

506
00:34:25.549 --> 00:34:33.499
very curious. Once I had been sketching
for about an hour I

507
00:34:33.589 --> 00:34:35.929
would get this sense of calm that would
descend on me

508
00:34:36.680 --> 00:34:36.860
Because

509
00:34:36.890 --> 00:34:40.940
I used to spend hours sketching at the
time. Now I

510
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:44.410
don't know maybe but at that time I'd just
fallen in love with

511
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:47.350
sketching, and just like falling in love
with

512
00:34:47.410 --> 00:34:50.800
anybody it's all you want to do. So I was
sometimes four or

513
00:34:50.890 --> 00:34:53.980
five hours more just sketching and I began
to notice this

514
00:34:54.130 --> 00:34:57.190
really strange thing after about an hour I
would get this

515
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:02.640
feeling of calm and like a flow... Of
course I know now I

516
00:35:02.700 --> 00:35:06.540
was entering the flow state and I realized
that once the flow

517
00:35:06.690 --> 00:35:10.770
state began I I no longer made a mistake.
My drawing would just

518
00:35:11.160 --> 00:35:17.880
happen automatically and it was very
enticing. This was like

519
00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:22.610
what is this magical feeling?" and then
the more I sketched

520
00:35:23.030 --> 00:35:28.310
the faster this state would descend until
about four or

521
00:35:28.430 --> 00:35:32.600
five years in after a lot of sketching it
would happen

522
00:35:32.720 --> 00:35:35.600
automatically as soon as I started. My
brain obviously

523
00:35:35.660 --> 00:35:39.380
developed some kind of a muscle memory and
the second I would

524
00:35:39.410 --> 00:35:44.650
start sketching I would feel the calm. And
then it began to

525
00:35:44.680 --> 00:35:50.350
affect the rest of my life when I wasn't
sketching and the

526
00:35:50.470 --> 00:35:51.550
melancholy went away

527
00:35:53.290 --> 00:35:53.860
Nic: That's wonderful

528
00:35:54.310 --> 00:35:57.190
Róisín: And I don't get it anymore I'm
100% cured

529
00:35:59.140 --> 00:35:59.710
Nic: That's wonderful

530
00:36:00.190 --> 00:36:03.780
Róisín: I know it's a miracle to me.
It's... I had until I was 44

531
00:36:04.290 --> 00:36:07.590
when I started sketching it was something
that was there to a

532
00:36:07.740 --> 00:36:14.820
lot lesser or a greater extent. And I was
able to... And now it's gone so I'm very

533
00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:20.310
grateful. And I I have had many students
say to me they they're

534
00:36:20.580 --> 00:36:24.770
There are people who were a bit like me.
Intense people people

535
00:36:24.860 --> 00:36:29.150
who were struggling mentally in some way
or another and they've

536
00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:31.850
come to me and said "I can't stop
sketching it's midnight I

537
00:36:31.940 --> 00:36:36.110
can't stop and I'm just on a high". I had
one woman not too long

538
00:36:36.170 --> 00:36:40.480
ago who said she said "I've been on
antidepressants for 30

539
00:36:40.630 --> 00:36:43.480
years and I've stopped taking them and why
did nobody ever

540
00:36:43.570 --> 00:36:46.630
tell me that I I can I can sketch instead
why did no one

541
00:36:46.660 --> 00:36:51.280
tell me?" So I do get I do get people
who've got a similar

542
00:36:51.370 --> 00:36:52.960
experience it happens quite a bit

543
00:36:53.890 --> 00:36:59.050
Nic: Yeah well I'm I'm in a similar boat
not quite cured by

544
00:36:59.140 --> 00:37:04.800
any stretch of the imagination but um... I
was um labeled with

545
00:37:05.190 --> 00:37:09.000
treatment resistant depression so for the
last... Since I've been

546
00:37:09.180 --> 00:37:15.030
15-16 I've had ongoing low-grade
depression and then sometimes

547
00:37:15.180 --> 00:37:20.810
really acute and these days the only times
where my brain really

548
00:37:20.900 --> 00:37:25.220
quiets is when I quilt, when I go bird
photographing, and when

549
00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:30.740
I sketch so. um Yeah I I think there's
something to this

550
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:35.810
whether it's sketching or or exercising
creativity which is

551
00:37:35.810 --> 00:37:36.050
I think

552
00:37:36.110 --> 00:37:38.090
it is I think it's I think that's the
common thread

553
00:37:38.540 --> 00:37:41.410
it's using your hands physically. It
doesn't work if

554
00:37:41.410 --> 00:37:44.260
you're just thinking about it. You have to
use your hands and

555
00:37:44.290 --> 00:37:47.470
it has to be something that you have it
has to be a

556
00:37:47.530 --> 00:37:52.390
problem solving thing whether that's you
know... I don't know

557
00:37:53.020 --> 00:37:57.220
rearing rare insects or whether it's you
know it has to be

558
00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.720
something to do with your hands that you
really have to focus

559
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:01.560
Nic: Yeah

560
00:38:01.890 --> 00:38:04.500
Róisín: And you really have to think. You
have to solve you

561
00:38:04.530 --> 00:38:08.220
have to solve problems. We're humans.
We're built to we're

562
00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:09.480
built to solve problems. Nic: Yeah

563
00:38:10.470 --> 00:38:14.490
and then I think part of it too is you
have to get to that point

564
00:38:14.580 --> 00:38:16.260
where you get to the flow state

565
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:19.770
Róisín: You do you definitely do I I think
you're right on

566
00:38:19.830 --> 00:38:23.330
that. You do and and and as I explained
for me it came

567
00:38:23.450 --> 00:38:29.210
slowly. It came slowly and um um and and
and and the prowess

568
00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:33.890
as sketching and the improved ability it
came hand in hand with

569
00:38:33.950 --> 00:38:37.010
that and that was its own rewards. And
obviously it helped

570
00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:40.190
my career in many ways but that's
completely separate. The

571
00:38:40.310 --> 00:38:47.740
big gift I had was being fixed and um I
mean I I you know I've

572
00:38:48.010 --> 00:38:54.820
always been a very uh how would I say
ill... It's an uncivic minded

573
00:38:54.940 --> 00:38:58.270
person I I you know I'm I'm ungenerous in
my mind

574
00:38:58.450 --> 00:39:02.910
Ungenerous towards others and and and and
sketching has definitely made me

575
00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:07.230
a much more relaxed and chill and nicer
person. I'm not sure

576
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.840
my husband would tell you the same thing
but I know for a

577
00:39:09.990 --> 00:39:13.560
fact that I've been a very uncivic minded
person for a long time. And I've been...
He's definitely got a nicer wife than he
did before

578
00:39:15.810 --> 00:39:18.840
Nic: You say you're ungenerous and yet you
you give up of your

579
00:39:19.050 --> 00:39:24.380
time, you share about sketching and urban
sketching, and drawing

580
00:39:24.500 --> 00:39:27.500
and you have YouTube and Instagram and and
you're giving of

581
00:39:27.560 --> 00:39:29.180
yourself. How is that ungenerous

582
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:33.470
Róisín: Well yes maybe I'm very generous
in physical terms

583
00:39:33.890 --> 00:39:37.130
But what I mean is is if I'm if I've
always thought the worst of

584
00:39:37.220 --> 00:39:40.970
people. Like if you know it'd be
mean-minded

585
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:45.130
mean-minded you know I wouldn't be kind in
my mind, you

586
00:39:45.160 --> 00:39:51.730
know. I'd be mean in my mind. um But now
I'm not so mean right. I'm

587
00:39:51.790 --> 00:39:55.480
becoming a little bit nicer, I think but
that's definitely

588
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:59.560
You know that phrase they say that um
"damaged people aren't very

589
00:39:59.710 --> 00:40:02.250
pleasant because they're so busy trying to
look after

590
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:04.860
themselves they don't have time for
others"? I think that would

591
00:40:04.890 --> 00:40:05.790
describe me quite well

592
00:40:07.890 --> 00:40:08.250
Nic: Still now

593
00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:11.430
Róisín: No no no no I'm loving it. I'm
loving it. I'm lovely now. Nic: Well

594
00:40:11.550 --> 00:40:14.880
you are lovely but I... I can't see into
your brains. I can't

595
00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:17.730
see into your mind. I don't know if you're
thinking "oh this

596
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.420
Nic really

597
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:25.610
Róisín: No no no that's in the past it's
in the past. Nic: What

598
00:40:26.150 --> 00:40:29.420
other creative things do you do? Cartoons,
drawing

599
00:40:29.570 --> 00:40:30.860
sketching... Do you do anything else

600
00:40:32.030 --> 00:40:32.300
Róisín: um I'm a sewer

601
00:40:33.350 --> 00:40:33.410
Yeah

602
00:40:33.860 --> 00:40:37.730
and I designed my sketch pocket. My little
bag for

603
00:40:37.790 --> 00:40:43.000
artists. Oh yeah um so I I don't know
maybe 10, maybe 9

604
00:40:43.090 --> 00:40:49.660
versions. And then when it was taken away
for, you know, mass

605
00:40:49.810 --> 00:40:53.200
manufacture if you like, then there was
more iterations but

606
00:40:53.230 --> 00:40:58.930
they weren't me. They were done by the
factory. um So I sew... um Do

607
00:40:59.170 --> 00:41:03.360
I have any other? uh What else do I do? I
guess I paint and acrylics

608
00:41:03.390 --> 00:41:07.500
and oils but only very occasionally. um
Give me an

609
00:41:07.530 --> 00:41:09.720
example. I mean I do lots of things I'm
just trying to

610
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:14.850
think about it. I'm just trying to think
about it. I'm just trying to think about
it. I'm... What do I do? I make models. No
used to anything to

611
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.670
do with using your hands I would say. I
don't I don't

612
00:41:17.730 --> 00:41:22.460
knit. I don't crochet. um I like sticking
things. I like I

613
00:41:22.520 --> 00:41:25.880
like cutting things out. I like glue. Oh I
love glue and

614
00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:32.180
scissors. You can't go wrong with glue
scissors and some

615
00:41:32.390 --> 00:41:33.320
nice colorful paper

616
00:41:35.180 --> 00:41:35.750
Nic: So collage

617
00:41:36.560 --> 00:41:40.630
Róisín: Collage I like. I like I like
baking. I like cooking. I

618
00:41:40.720 --> 00:41:45.910
like arranging a house to look nice. um
Yeah lots of things

619
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:51.940
Nic: Cooking and baking. um I'm starting
to make connections

620
00:41:52.060 --> 00:41:55.510
You said in your comics there's recipes.
Are they actually

621
00:41:56.650 --> 00:41:59.620
recipes for humans to try or are they
recipes for the

622
00:42:00.520 --> 00:42:01.830
characters in your comics to

623
00:42:02.520 --> 00:42:05.430
Róisín: Nope they're genuine actual
recipes and they're

624
00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:11.340
foraged food so... Nic: Oh nice Róisín:
Food you find in the world and I've done

625
00:42:11.370 --> 00:42:15.180
that since I was a teenager. um I used to
pick rose hips and try

626
00:42:15.210 --> 00:42:18.630
and make rose hip syrup. um None of my
brothers and sisters did. And

627
00:42:18.660 --> 00:42:21.080
I've got lots of them I do not know what
they were doing if

628
00:42:21.110 --> 00:42:24.470
they weren't gathering food from the
countryside but I was. um I

629
00:42:24.530 --> 00:42:28.280
was always trying to make my bread rise
and... um My father was a

630
00:42:28.370 --> 00:42:32.120
wonderful bread maker and somehow I don't
know... I do not

631
00:42:32.210 --> 00:42:35.780
know how his bread worked really well and
mine didn't I'm sure

632
00:42:35.810 --> 00:42:41.620
he told me how to do it but it didn't work
so... um You know fruit

633
00:42:41.980 --> 00:42:45.070
jams next week. I'm this week actually
this week I'm going to

634
00:42:45.130 --> 00:42:49.390
pick elder flowers to make some cordial.
um And in next month's

635
00:42:49.450 --> 00:42:54.910
recipe is um I make nettle soup and some
really gorgeous Irish brown

636
00:42:54.970 --> 00:43:00.360
bread and also some nettle pesto and um so
lots of things

637
00:43:00.390 --> 00:43:04.590
with nettles. And then in the first issue
it was sea beet. The

638
00:43:04.710 --> 00:43:07.470
vegetable that grows on the seashore and
it's like chard

639
00:43:07.740 --> 00:43:11.400
If you have chard and it's delicious. It's
delicious. Can

640
00:43:11.430 --> 00:43:15.720
you imagine coming across miles and miles
of free perfect

641
00:43:15.870 --> 00:43:21.350
fresh chard that's just there to be taken
and that's what I did

642
00:43:21.590 --> 00:43:25.370
In... It's only there for about a month.
um But I I took lots and I

643
00:43:25.460 --> 00:43:28.970
even put some in the freezer so I'm very
pleased. And then in

644
00:43:28.970 --> 00:43:33.740
the in the autumn I'll make sloe gin and
I'll do something

645
00:43:33.770 --> 00:43:36.740
with mushrooms probably. When somebody
shows me because I

646
00:43:36.860 --> 00:43:39.770
have no clue. I only... I've... There's
only a couple of mushrooms I'm

647
00:43:39.860 --> 00:43:43.240
familiar with but there's lots of
mushrooms I'd like to I'd

648
00:43:43.270 --> 00:43:44.560
like to learn about so... Nic: You

649
00:43:44.620 --> 00:43:47.500
don't want to mess around with mushrooms
unless you you

650
00:43:47.590 --> 00:43:48.820
actually know what you're doing

651
00:43:49.090 --> 00:43:51.010
Róisín: No I don't want to mess around
mushrooms. I like

652
00:43:51.310 --> 00:43:51.820
being alive

653
00:43:55.270 --> 00:43:57.580
Nic: Bread. Do you do yeasted bread or
sourdough

654
00:43:58.090 --> 00:44:01.200
Róisín: Yeah I do... I don't do sourdough.
I um I did during the

655
00:44:01.200 --> 00:44:06.600
pandemic and um I I made a disaster with
sourdough. I somehow

656
00:44:06.810 --> 00:44:09.300
allowed it to get contaminated with
bacteria but I didn't

657
00:44:09.390 --> 00:44:14.220
know. So I gave myself a gut infection
from... And nobody

658
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:15.180
tells you that you know

659
00:44:15.390 --> 00:44:15.450
yeah

660
00:44:17.220 --> 00:44:19.530
Everybody was talking about how wonderful
it was, how healthy

661
00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:22.280
but every time I took a bite I would get a
terrible pain and I

662
00:44:22.340 --> 00:44:24.620
thought what's going on? Something's going
on here. But

663
00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:29.300
I've been making yeast bread um for 30, 40
years and I also make soda

664
00:44:29.330 --> 00:44:32.660
bread. So I love I love making bread. I
love making unusual

665
00:44:32.750 --> 00:44:36.470
bread and I love playing with the timing
so that it changes

666
00:44:36.500 --> 00:44:39.320
the fermentation. You know I really like
making fun bread

667
00:44:39.410 --> 00:44:41.170
and now my son makes makes bread as well

668
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:47.020
Nic: Yeah I've I've been making sourdough
since the start of the

669
00:44:47.170 --> 00:44:51.700
year and I am very careful about my
starter making sure

670
00:44:51.730 --> 00:44:52.540
it's it's healthy

671
00:44:53.050 --> 00:44:53.860
Róisín: It's yeah yeah

672
00:44:55.570 --> 00:44:58.600
Nic: The one thing I'm not mastering yet
is the the baguette

673
00:44:59.050 --> 00:45:00.360
because I think... Róisín: No I haven't

674
00:45:00.419 --> 00:45:02.789
mastered it. I haven't mastered it. I saw
YouTube

675
00:45:02.849 --> 00:45:05.669
recently on making a baguette my son and I
are watching it

676
00:45:05.879 --> 00:45:11.099
and... um I think I think I think it's
it's well obviously it's

677
00:45:11.189 --> 00:45:14.339
possible but it's it's very complicated

678
00:45:15.150 --> 00:45:19.710
Nic: Yeah I was told that because I have a
gas oven and

679
00:45:19.740 --> 00:45:24.410
it's not a commercial oven it's too vented
to hold the steam to

680
00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:25.280
have the right

681
00:45:25.910 --> 00:45:27.710
Róisín: See, that's what I mean. That's
what I mean. I think we just have to go to
the

682
00:45:27.830 --> 00:45:28.850
baker to get our baguette

683
00:45:29.540 --> 00:45:33.650
Nic: Yeah well as I said I live in the
back of beyond. The nearest

684
00:45:33.680 --> 00:45:35.420
baker is an hour and a half from me so

685
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:38.450
Róisín: Same that's why I started making
yeast bread

686
00:45:38.510 --> 00:45:42.670
because the bread you buy around here is
awful, or it certainly

687
00:45:42.730 --> 00:45:46.960
was 30 years ago. um And you know there's
nothing like the

688
00:45:47.140 --> 00:45:50.590
beautiful smell of bread that's been
rising overnight and this

689
00:45:51.340 --> 00:45:53.380
bubbles and oh it's just beautiful

690
00:45:58.660 --> 00:46:03.540
Nic: Let's get back to comics. You've got
one published. Róisín: I have. Nic: You've

691
00:46:03.660 --> 00:46:08.640
got one coming out. Róisín: Mm-hmm Nic: Do
you know what your third one's gonna

692
00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:08.670
be

693
00:46:10.200 --> 00:46:12.660
Róisín: I I have well the magazine the
comic is called

694
00:46:12.750 --> 00:46:16.020
Wild Atlantic Ink and it comes out once a
month

695
00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:17.100
Nic: Right

696
00:46:17.580 --> 00:46:22.430
Róisín: So you you can buy it locally in
the local shop for a

697
00:46:23.090 --> 00:46:26.900
reduced price because I sort of feel it's
nice for the locals to

698
00:46:26.900 --> 00:46:30.620
be able to buy it. And then you can buy it
as a subscriber so

699
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.960
it goes out all over the world to my
subscribers. And they are

700
00:46:36.290 --> 00:46:40.690
all sent out on the same day. 14th of each
month and that

701
00:46:40.810 --> 00:46:45.010
way no... There's no sneak peeks
beforehand. And then I wait 10

702
00:46:45.100 --> 00:46:48.460
days after the 14th to be sure that
everybody has it and then

703
00:46:48.520 --> 00:46:51.970
I can show people what's in it. That's the
theory anyway. This

704
00:46:52.060 --> 00:46:55.060
month I was so busy. I was teaching in
different parts of

705
00:46:55.120 --> 00:46:57.700
Ireland so I haven't even showed anybody
what's in the

706
00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:00.660
issue that's been out for three weeks.
Three weeks ago I sent

707
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:07.080
it so. um Like for example I went down to
the shore last week

708
00:47:07.620 --> 00:47:10.410
because I wanted to include the beautiful
wild flowers that are

709
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:13.320
on the shore at the moment and I was
looking at them, and

710
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.130
they're so beautiful, and I was thinking
"oh how can I present

711
00:47:17.790 --> 00:47:21.590
it in an interesting way?" And I'm again
my father's words "don't

712
00:47:21.740 --> 00:47:28.550
be boring don't be boring" Dad thanks! So
um so then I

713
00:47:28.670 --> 00:47:31.370
suddenly thought I was driving home I was
there by myself and

714
00:47:31.610 --> 00:47:36.080
you know that's okay it's cool um and I
was driving home and

715
00:47:36.200 --> 00:47:41.950
suddenly an idea popped into my head of
how to present it with a

716
00:47:42.010 --> 00:47:46.390
character with a theme so that's the
beauty of this this

717
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:51.100
this this this project. And and then I
asked um I asked I

718
00:47:51.250 --> 00:47:53.350
asked was it ChatGPT or Claude I can't
remember. I

719
00:47:53.410 --> 00:47:56.830
think it was ChatGPT. I asked ChatGPT to
suggest some

720
00:47:56.920 --> 00:48:03.690
creative uh ways to to to do ideas. um And
I have no shame about that

721
00:48:04.080 --> 00:48:08.040
I should have but I don't. And uh he,
ChatGPT came up with a

722
00:48:08.100 --> 00:48:10.470
brilliant idea. I shouldn't be saying this
because I should

723
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:14.520
pretend it's my idea. But they mentioned
something about um a

724
00:48:14.640 --> 00:48:20.720
ghost. And I realized that I it just it
just sparked a cool

725
00:48:20.810 --> 00:48:24.620
idea like. I live right next to this big
huge ruined house

726
00:48:26.240 --> 00:48:31.130
and it was built in 1789 and it has been
empty when it was

727
00:48:31.190 --> 00:48:35.180
since it was burnt out in 1920. And the
people who lived there

728
00:48:35.330 --> 00:48:40.630
It has a very very colorful past and, it's
not a nice past

729
00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.440
It's it's not the good old days it's the
bad old days

730
00:48:44.980 --> 00:48:45.190
right

731
00:48:45.520 --> 00:48:51.220
It's a tale of poverty and um and and
exploitation of

732
00:48:51.220 --> 00:48:54.610
the locals. But that's... I'm not going to
be miserable I mean

733
00:48:54.670 --> 00:48:58.120
Again my father would say don't be so
miserable. So I was

734
00:48:58.180 --> 00:49:01.560
thinking I could have a ghost who lives in
that house because

735
00:49:01.620 --> 00:49:03.690
people talk about that house being
haunted, and a few people

736
00:49:03.690 --> 00:49:06.270
have talked about they've seen ghosts
there. I don't believe

737
00:49:06.330 --> 00:49:09.690
that, it's not... That's not the point.
I'm going to have a character

738
00:49:10.080 --> 00:49:13.260
who lives there. He's a ghost and he's
exploring the area. And

739
00:49:13.290 --> 00:49:16.710
I don't know yet what I'm going to do but
how fun is it to have

740
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:22.100
your own comic that you can make up any
old crap you want and

741
00:49:22.160 --> 00:49:24.800
you can just allow these characters to
take on a life of

742
00:49:24.830 --> 00:49:27.710
their own. They exist in your mind. I'm
lucky enough to be

743
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:30.890
able to draw exactly how I want something
to look really

744
00:49:30.980 --> 00:49:34.040
really fast. I have all the tools I have a
beautiful

745
00:49:34.100 --> 00:49:38.660
studio I have the time so I feel like all
my Christmases and

746
00:49:38.720 --> 00:49:39.920
Easters have suddenly arrived

747
00:49:41.570 --> 00:49:42.220
Nic: That's wonderful

748
00:49:42.640 --> 00:49:43.270
Róisín: I'm so happy

749
00:49:47.770 --> 00:49:51.940
Nic: Before we wrap up is there anything
you want to share that

750
00:49:52.540 --> 00:49:55.540
I didn't ask or you think we should talk
about

751
00:49:56.320 --> 00:50:00.090
Róisín: Okay um well I think it's very
interesting about um

752
00:50:00.270 --> 00:50:06.330
identifying as an artist and I... I
look... I don't know is it a

753
00:50:06.390 --> 00:50:11.250
male versus female thing. A man's career
is his

754
00:50:11.310 --> 00:50:17.010
identity. A woman's career, and don't
shoot me, is as a mother

755
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:21.320
That's our biological purpose and I have
very strong feelings

756
00:50:21.380 --> 00:50:26.300
about that. um And I do believe that women
have been sold a pop

757
00:50:26.630 --> 00:50:31.910
that, you know, a career is just
obviously... You know a lot of

758
00:50:31.910 --> 00:50:35.810
people want kids and can't have them. A
lot of people don't want

759
00:50:35.990 --> 00:50:38.690
kids. You know it's different for
everybody

760
00:50:39.350 --> 00:50:44.260
but this idea of identifying as something
with a name in it... I

761
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.050
don't know if it well... I can only speak
personally with

762
00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:50.020
authority. For me it just wasn't a thing
it just wasn't a

763
00:50:50.080 --> 00:50:54.340
thing. I'm just me. I'm just me. I'm not a
artist, I'm not a

764
00:50:54.820 --> 00:50:57.610
mom, I'm not a, you know, you don't have
to put a label on

765
00:50:57.670 --> 00:50:58.030
yourself

766
00:50:58.600 --> 00:50:58.660
Nic: Yeah

767
00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:02.880
Róisín: um So so and yet people think they
do. And for my

768
00:51:02.970 --> 00:51:05.850
husband that's very important. He... He
was an oceanographer

769
00:51:06.240 --> 00:51:08.550
He's no longer an oceanographer. This is
what he says

770
00:51:08.910 --> 00:51:11.340
but it's a thing you know it's a thing

771
00:51:12.390 --> 00:51:19.230
um So so from identity purposes yeah I do
see... I do

772
00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:24.200
see people wanting to call themselves a
thing. um I'm I I and

773
00:51:24.230 --> 00:51:26.660
it's like it's like in urban sketching
they say drawn

774
00:51:26.720 --> 00:51:31.490
draw verbs not nouns. I would say I'm a
I'm a verb I'm not a

775
00:51:31.550 --> 00:51:35.000
noun. I'm a doing. I'm not a being. I'm
definitely a doing

776
00:51:35.330 --> 00:51:38.570
not a being. So yeah I think you don't
need labels you just

777
00:51:38.570 --> 00:51:40.700
have to you know do

778
00:51:41.660 --> 00:51:42.280
Nic: You are what you do

779
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.450
Róisín: You are what you do yeah well I'm
a doing for

780
00:51:45.450 --> 00:51:50.280
sure. Yeah um and I suppose the last thing
I would say is that

781
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:57.780
it's it's a massive privilege to be
healthy settled

782
00:51:57.780 --> 00:52:02.850
financially secure enough that I can take
some risks. Creative

783
00:52:02.850 --> 00:52:07.185
risks and to have access to social media
so that I can

784
00:52:07.185 --> 00:52:12.345
actually share the joy and the wonder and
the the the the passion of

785
00:52:12.345 --> 00:52:16.725
creativity. um And to inspire other people
and maybe get them out

786
00:52:16.725 --> 00:52:21.435
of the the the the holes sometimes life
throws us at us

787
00:52:21.890 --> 00:52:24.500
through creativity as people have done for
me. As Danny

788
00:52:24.590 --> 00:52:28.880
Gregory did. As Hergé did. As all the
incredible people that I

789
00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:32.540
follow online and listen to their podcasts
and all those

790
00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:35.810
people who have shared so generously um
and have changed my

791
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.230
life. Guy Raz is another one I just adore
Guy Raz and I just love him and his

792
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:45.100
podcast. um So I'm just pass it on a
little bit I suppose and uh and

793
00:52:47.560 --> 00:52:50.230
it's just it's an honor it's a it's an
honor to be asked to

794
00:52:50.380 --> 00:52:51.940
talk about it and to share it and

795
00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:58.510
Nic: So social media. Where can people
find you? Where can

796
00:52:58.630 --> 00:53:03.810
people find subscription info for getting
your comics and

797
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:04.470
seeing all you

798
00:53:05.670 --> 00:53:08.100
Róisín: Sure okay well my comic is on my
website roisincure

799
00:53:08.190 --> 00:53:12.690
com and you'll find it under I think under

800
00:53:12.810 --> 00:53:16.950
membership. My my webmaster has put it
under membership so you

801
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:19.860
know. I don't think it's on the home page.
You might have to dig

802
00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:22.760
around a little to find it and it at the
moment it costs 10 euros

803
00:53:22.850 --> 00:53:28.130
99 delivered on your doormat every month.
um And then you can

804
00:53:28.190 --> 00:53:32.390
get it for slightly cheaper if you buy the
the year the year

805
00:53:32.510 --> 00:53:38.120
subscription. um I was putting up reels
every single day since

806
00:53:38.330 --> 00:53:40.960
early January as I mentioned and it's not
that I've run out

807
00:53:41.020 --> 00:53:45.280
of steam it's not that I've been burnt out
but I can't even

808
00:53:45.370 --> 00:53:48.190
scroll anymore because I'm doing a comic
all the time

809
00:53:48.700 --> 00:53:48.760
Nic: Yeah

810
00:53:49.690 --> 00:53:53.140
Róisín: 16 pages every single month that's
one... It suddenly

811
00:53:53.230 --> 00:53:58.900
hit me that's that's a page per two days!
Help but. um That's what

812
00:53:58.930 --> 00:54:02.940
I've chosen and you know I am a fast I'm a
fast worker so I

813
00:54:03.030 --> 00:54:06.120
think it's going to be okay. So Instagram
Róisín Curé

814
00:54:07.470 --> 00:54:12.990
YouTube Róisín Curé. uh Where else am I?
TikTok I've just

815
00:54:13.050 --> 00:54:16.290
started. I've stopped now but for a few
weeks there I was

816
00:54:16.350 --> 00:54:20.600
wasting time on TikTok. Not going to do
that anymore. And um so

817
00:54:20.660 --> 00:54:24.860
it's just my name on all all the
platforms, you know. um I don't do

818
00:54:25.040 --> 00:54:29.360
Threads, I don't do BlueSky. What else do
I not do? uh Anyway

819
00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:32.990
Instagram YouTube those are my principal
ones and if you've

820
00:54:33.050 --> 00:54:37.970
got a lot of time on your hands then go to
YouTube and you

821
00:54:38.060 --> 00:54:41.380
won't be looking up for a lot of time. So
I think it's time same as Instagram
there's

822
00:54:41.530 --> 00:54:42.670
a lot of stuff there

823
00:54:43.420 --> 00:54:44.830
Nic: It's all good stuff too

824
00:54:45.490 --> 00:54:46.000
Róisín: Thank you

825
00:54:48.130 --> 00:54:51.610
Nic: Thank you so much for opening
yourself and chatting

826
00:54:51.670 --> 00:54:55.090
with me and sharing all those insights I
really enjoyed that

827
00:54:55.660 --> 00:54:58.240
Róisín: Oh, thank you, Nic, and likewise I
really enjoyed

828
00:54:58.270 --> 00:55:01.620
talking to you and you know don't be a
stranger reach out

829
00:55:01.890 --> 00:55:04.170
anytime I always love to

830
00:55:05.310 --> 00:55:07.470
Nic: I will be sure to do that, thank you

831
00:55:08.160 --> 00:55:08.880
Róisín: Thank you so much

832
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:16.470
Nic: If you enjoyed this episode if you
were inspired in

833
00:55:16.560 --> 00:55:20.100
any way or if you learned something please
leave a rating

834
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:25.010
or review on Apple Podcasts on Spotify or
whatever podcast

835
00:55:25.130 --> 00:55:30.200
aggregator you use. Ratings and reviews
really do help. Thank

836
00:55:30.260 --> 00:55:34.850
you. And that's it! I'm Nic Steenhout,
this is The Work

837
00:55:34.910 --> 00:55:39.290
Between. If this sounds like the kind of
conversation you enjoy, like

838
00:55:40.040 --> 00:55:42.610
subscribe, and I'll see you in the next
episode